The interview was conducted by Metod Berlec, Deputy Editor-in-Chief. It was originally published in a promotional issue of the magazine and on the magazine’s website.                                                                                       

DEMOKRACIJA: Mr Janša, the Republic of Slovenia celebrated 30 years of independence and sovereignty on 25 June. At that time, you were the Minister of Defence and one of the key players in the fight for Slovenia's independence. How do you look back on that time after three decades?

The path to Slovenia's independence was remarkable. As a nation and as individuals, we can be rightly proud of it. Unfortunately, the time that followed the declaration of independence did not fulfil all the expectations and hopes we had placed in the cradle of an independent Slovenia. Unfortunately, we have not been able to realise the full potential of our nation and society. There are several reasons for this, but the key one is certainly the opposition to genuine democratisation by those forces for whom independence and democracy have never been their first choice. The insistence on division and class hatred has made it impossible for Slovenia to breathe with both its lungs. Nevertheless, we have achieved quite a lot in 30 years.  In 1990, Slovenia's annual per capita income stood at 10,000 US dollars. This year, despite the pandemic, the amount will exceed 25,000 US dollars. By comparison, Croatia’s per capita income is estimated at just under 15,000 US dollars, Serbia’s at 8,000 US dollars, with Bosnia and Herzegovina not reaching US 6,000 dollars of per capita income. In addition to everything else independence brought about, no one can argue that it has not led to greater prosperity.

DEMOKRACIJA: Let us move on to discuss the work of your Government. Last March, after the previous Prime Minister, Marjan Šarec, shamefully threw in the towel, you took the lead in the coalition government formed by the Slovenian Democratic Party (SDS), Miro Cerar's Party (SMC), New Slovenia - Christian Democrats (NSi) and the Democratic Party of Pensioners of Slovenia (DeSUS). Right away, you had to face the new coronavirus epidemic that took the whole world by surprise. How do you view the events of that time?

We were faced with an unknown and very dangerous virus, we had no protective medical equipment because the warehouses left to us by the previous Government led by Marjan Šarec were empty, and the European Union, with the pandemic declared and all the restrictions put in place during the first wave, felt like it had stepped back into the Middle Ages. We worked day and night to resolve the situation. We also made some mistakes, but who in the world did not? Unfortunately, Slovenia was one of the few countries where the opposition did not help in the efforts to control the epidemic in what I can now say was like a war. Even though we continuously invited and urged them to do so. By constantly undermining preventive measures, the Constitutional Arch Coalition (KUL coalition) sowed discord among the people and, as a result, allowed the virus to spread more rapidly. In addition to the unconstructive and at times quite savage behaviour of the opposition, which tabled ten individual motions of confidence during the pandemic, the problem were also the self-proclaimed virus experts, who spread fear among the citizens and received a great deal of media support and attention. During the epidemic, the main media pillars with the most influence, i.e. Radio-Television Slovenia, the television channel POP TV and the media empire controlled by Martin Odlazek, did everything they could during to divide people as much as possible. As Mitja Iršič wrote about a recent joint programme of the Radio-Television Slovenia and the television channel POP TV under the deceitful title Forward Together: "Half of the viewers were delighted by the criticism of the Government and its measures while half of them were disappointed, angry and sad. All of the viewers, however, remained divided."

DEMOKRACIJA: In a remarkably short period of time, you have passed a whole series of important anti-corona legislative packages to help people and the economy.

The anti-corona measures in the economic and social spheres, which amounted to 4 billion euros, have saved jobs and improved the social situation of the people. We have not forgotten anyone, and I can safely say that this is a Government that has spent money on its people, not on NGOs, studies and research. Pensioners, farmers, cultural workers, the self-employed and businesses have all received emergency assistance; it is thanks to these measures that they have been able to stay in business, with some of them even having improved their liquidity. The success, efficiency and cost-effectiveness of the anti-corona measures is also demonstrated by the current economic growth rate, which is above the EU average. Furthermore, Slovenia’s debt increased by less than the EU average during the difficult epidemiological situation, and this year we will make up for last year's drop in growth.

DEMOKRACIJA: How do you feel about repeatedly having to deal with protests, which started even before your Government was sworn in, attacks by the media and incredibly destructive behaviour by the left-wing opposition?

It is at the late Ivan Kramberger said it would be – when they are not in power, they will protest and call for the death of those who are in power. He was the first to be killed.

DEMOKRACIJA: So, looking at the Government's efforts to contain the epidemic of the new coronavirus, you have recently also had to deal with decisions of the Constitutional Court and the Supreme Court that directly undermine these efforts, not to mention the actions of the Information Commissioner. What is your take on this?

It is difficult to understand. They act as if the virus had more rights than a human being.

DEMOKRACIJA: How do you respond to the criticism that you have heavily indebted the country during these times? The former Prime Minister Alenka Bratušek has been very vocal about this issue ...

During the pandemic, the increase in Slovenia’s debt was significantly lower than the EU average, whereas Ms Bratušek and other skilled leftists managed to increase Slovenia’s debt by much more than the EU average during the financial crisis. We have mitigated the impacts of the epidemic by financially helping the people and the economy, while Ms Bratušek bailed out two tycoon banks, i.e. the Factor and Probanka banks, whose owners are members of Forum 21, so that today they can enjoy their luxury villas and yachts, while all of us pay off their debts.

DEMOKRACIJA: Recently, the last President of the League of Communists of Slovenia, Milan Kučan, has become more publicly involved again. At the end of October, in Šentjanž, he said, and this is a direct quote: "It is time to say enough! To resist this way of governing. To stand up again in defence of the democratic achievements of human civilisation." How do you comment this, seeing as he also made some comparisons with 1941?

His comparisons between the times we are living in now and 1941 are quite telling. The year 1941 was when the Communists, in the throes of the Second World War, started a revolution. It was the time when they began the systematic liquidation of their opponents and imaginary class enemies. Women, children and men. Today's protests, in which Milan Kučan actively participates and which he is also encouraging, use similar inciting tactics and have the same core message. Death. The protesters stop at nothing, and to make the absurdity even greater, those they threaten with death they accuse of hate speech.

DEMOKRACIJA: The statements of a retired politician with a totalitarian past would probably have been completely ignored if they had not been widely quoted and repeated by the mainstream media and the members of the KUL coalition. Does this show that Milan Kučan and his inner circle still have a strong influence?

Certainly. Although this influence seems to have waned so much that Mr Kučan has to turn up at illegal protests in person and draw a red symbol on his shirt. For left-wing politicians, taking part in his nonsense proved no difficulty, as they are used to saying one thing and doing another. As Solzhenitsyn said of their ideological framework: "We know they are lying. They know they are lying. They know that we know they are lying. But they still lie," because lies are their immortal souls. Without them, they cannot exist. Ivan Maček - Matija, to whom Tanja Fajon and her colleagues sing praises every year, has already admitted this publicly when he said that they had thoroughly lied to the people about what they had experienced in Soviet Russia. Because if they had told them everything, nobody would have fallen for their propaganda anymore. To put this is present-day context: Tanja Fajon knew that no one would believe her that her assistant had only proofread the report of the European Parliament delegation, but she lied about it anyway. Because she could. Because she knew that Radio-Television Slovenia, the television channel POP TV and other media outlets that cater to the KUL coalition would do everything in their power to clear her name.

DEMOKRACIJA: The left-wing politicians like to talk big about striving for the good of the people and of the country. However, when an attempt at the uncontrolled privatisation of the state-owned company GEN-I is revealed, they unanimously express their support for the director, the former vice-president of Positive Slovenia, which was headed by Zoran Jankovič and later Alenka Bratušek. Are they doing this because they believe themselves to be first-class citizens and think they can do whatever they want?

Precisely so. To understand how such absurdities are even possible, we need to look back a little. The former Communist authorities stepped down only to the extent to which they have lost influence in the executive through elections. They have, however, retained absolute influence in the judiciary, the prosecution service, the mainstream media and financial institutions. Some courts, such as the one in Velenje, even operate in the same building as the municipal office of the Social Democrats (SD). This way they can talk and reach agreements in the corridors or in the canteen. They even dare to write in a judgment that an elitist party, the one they share their building with, may acquire a former Jewish villa as its private property by exchanging one property owned by the Republic of Slovenia for another property that is also owned by the Republic of Slovenia. They have perfected a system that destroys people through double standards, selective justice and arbitrary cruelty. There is no need to mention the Patria scandal, but let us remember the suffering of Milko Novič, and the ordeal of the judge Zvjezdan Radonjić, who had delivered a judgment based on the law and his conscience, and not according to the expectations of those who organised the murder of Janko Jamnik. To say nothing of the thousands whose rights were denied and who died before their trials were over. On the other hand, there seems to be no limit to the rewarding of loyal colleagues. Think back to the court settlement that awarded Ms Pirc Musar 70,000 euros in compensation for failing to become the director of Radio-Television Slovenia. The culminating proof of the corruption of the Bavcon-influenced judiciary in Slovenia is the fact that we taxpayers have had to pay more than 300 million euros in damages as a result of unjust judgments that were overturned by the European Court of Human Rights. This is four times the amount of the anti-corona solidarity bonus paid to all pensioners with low pensions.

DEMOKRACIJA: The SDS is by far the strongest political party in Slovenia, but it needs political partners to secure a parliamentary majority. Since the days of the Slovenian Christian Democrat party and the Demos coalition, the NSi has been recognised by voters as a natural coalition member. How do you see the future of this party, which the media are constantly trying to turn against the SDS?

The future of the NSi will be all the brighter the more it will follow the motto of its first president, Andrej Bajuk, who, after founding the party, answered a similar question with something along the lines of, "The programme of the NSi is in many ways similar to the programmes of the SDS and the SLS, but we also have many differing views. Otherwise, we would not have three separate parties. But precisely because of these indisputable facts, our success will depend not on emphasising the differences, but on the extent to which we are able to be better than the SDS or the SLS in implementing our programme, both where it aligns with and differs from the programmes of the other two parties." There is nothing more to add to this insightful thought by Mr Bajuk. Its lesson applies and will continue to apply to the SDS as well.

DEMOKRACIJA: The NSi is a party that, unlike all other political parties in Slovenia, has had the same Secretary General from the very beginning, while the presidents of party have changed. Usually, the presidents of a party choose their own right hand, but in the NSi it is the other way around. Do you think that this is one of the reasons for the kind of two-faced attitude of this party, which for the most part participates very constructively in the coalition government, whereas its MEP keeps relentlessly lashing out at you and the SDS?

I am not familiar enough with the internal dynamics of the NSi to say. Ultimately, this matter needs to be dealt with by each party through its internal rules. As for the actions of their MEP, who is more or less a pale imitation of Tanja Fajon, such behaviour is, of course, detrimental to the party’s image. It is clear to anyone who thinks logically that voters whose choices are based on ideology always prefer the original to the copy. It is also no coincidence that whenever the NSi starts to gain more support according to public opinion polls, the media immediately organise a high-profile interview with the NSi’s MEP, which pushes the party back towards the parliamentary threshold.

DEMOKRACIJA: The leading members of the Nsi say that the party has to work hard to gain the support of the electorate, so it cannot always follow the SDS and offer it unconditional support in all its endeavours.

That goes without saying. However, it must not succumb to media pressure, especially if the party is in a coalition government. An independent party decides independently which priorities it will include in the coalition agreement. Pursuing the shared commitments included in the coalition agreement therefore does not mean submitting to the will of one party. The voters understand this very well. Giving in to pressure from the media does not push the party towards the centre of the political spectrum, but towards the sidelines of parliament.

DEMOKRACIJA: Does the political party or movement Let's Connect Slovenia have potential? Are opinion polls showing it reaching the parliamentary threshold?

It can achieve much more than that. Everyone who will take part in this joint effort can contribute to the common success, because almost 50% of people did not vote in the last elections, so there is plenty of room. However, as usual, separate actions outside the parliamentary parties will only bring disappointment, because voters generally do not wish their votes to go in vain.

DEMOKRACIJA: POP TV published parts of a conversation between Andrej Vizjak and Bojan Petan that happened 14 years ago. An interpellation procedure was initiated against Minister Vizjak. Is a ministerial change on the horizon?

That is true. The interpellation procedure was initiated against the minister. At this time, the government has not yet received or discussed a response or his defence. Some like to speculate and judge only based on the media coverage without tuning in to the debate in the National Assembly or reading the defence's response. However, there are a number of other outstanding issues in addition to the fate of the Minister, who has been acting proactively and removed dozens of bureaucratic obstacles in his sector and was coordinating the 27 EU Member States at the challenging Glasgow climate summit at the very time when he was subjected to attacks back home. We can only ask ourselves how many recordings have been made illegally during the last decades by the deep state or the Udba mobsters and what is the status of these recordings in Slovenia’s political and legal order. Will the same rules that are advocated for by the KUL coalition and the parallel instrument in the Petan-Vizjak case also apply in other cases? Why was there not a similar or even bigger uproar over the legitimate recordings of the mayor of Ljubljana, Mr Janković, abusing his position in the pharmacist scandal? Why were there no calls for the resignation of Mr Janković and other figures involved from the judiciary and the prosecutor’s office, as the legitimate recordings were deleted and Mr Janković was pardoned.

DEMOKRACIJA: The NSi publicly stated that they will not support the minister before Mr Vizjak has even been given a chance to respond. Does that constitute a breach of the coalition agreement?

First and foremost, this is a judgement based on media pressure before they have even been briefed on the defence and before the hearing and debating the interpellation itself. While not supporting a minister is not a direct breach of the coalition agreement, supporting an interpellation is.

DEMOKRACIJA: What would happen if this were the case?

In the event of a direct breach of the coalition agreement, the offending party is expelled from the coalition. This has been clear to everyone since the signing of the agreement.

DEMOKRACIJA: There have been rumours that there are recordings of conversations between a former NSi vice-president and the current director of the Motorway Company of the Republic of Slovenia (DARS), Valentin Hajdinjak, Minister of Infrastructure Vrtovec and representatives of the Kolektor company, which are more recent and much more controversial than the 14-year-old conversation of Minister Vizjak. The rumours are reinforced by the apparent bias of the Delo newspaper, which is owned by this company, towards the NSi and especially Minister Vrtovec. Have you heard about them?

Experiences from home and abroad have shown that, when illegal wiretapping becomes publicly acceptable, this activity can become rampant on an unprecedented scale. The level of mutual trust in political and business contexts declines rapidly. Recordings start popping up from everywhere, which only generates more rumours about other alleged recordings and, in the end, nobody trusts anybody anymore.

DEMOKRACIJA: Since July, Slovenia has been at the helm of the Council of the European Union. Are you happy with what has been achieved, especially considering that the EU has changed a lot since Slovenia held its first presidency?

We achieved several important breakthroughs, which surprised many. We harmonised a single framework for action of all 27 Member States regarding the migration pressures after the Taliban had returned to power in Afghanistan. No so-called humanitarian corridors, no invitations to the EU. At first, many questioned this approach, but in the end everyone approved and supported it. This was also the basis for unified support offered to Poland and the Baltic states facing the migrant threat from Belarus. We reintroduced arguments and nuclear energy, which is the key to reaching these goals, to the discussion on achieving climate neutrality by 2050. We also brought the concept of "EU enlargement" back to discussions on the European future of the Western Balkans and set a definitive timeline for 2030; though this has not yet been approved, the proposal is on the table and it is impossible to ignore as there are no alternatives. Slovenia has been successful in achieving its goals on EU resilience and preparedness for potential future crises – cybersecurity, recovery after the COVID pandemic, strengthening of European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control's mandate, European strategic autonomy.

Our strategic objective is for the EU to follow its founding fathers’ vision of an integrated and free Europe at peace with itself and its neighbours. Slovenians joined the EU on the basis of a free decision, knowing that some things can be better solved together, which is what we are doing. At the same time, over the last decade we have seen attempts in Brussels to decide on things that have not been delegated to the EU institutions by the Member States and that are impossible to regulate with one-size-fits-all solutions. We as European nations belong to the same European tradition, but we also have a very different recent history, due to the rise of National Socialism, fascism and communism, which shook and divided our continent in the last century. It will take a great deal of mutual reflection, tolerance and broad-mindedness before we all realise how dangerous the enduring legacy of the last totalitarian century is and take appropriate action.

On the future of the EU, we also see some trying to replace the existing European flag consisting of the twelve stars of Mary's crown with the rainbow flag, which was even carried to the summit of Mount Triglav by the president of Social Democrats. While Josep Borell, otherwise a member of the socialist party, and I displayed the Slovenian and the European flag at Mount Triglav, the president of Social Democrats only ran up the flag of one interest group. I think this says it all about the commitment of this person and the party to the Slovenian and European values.

DEMOKRACIJA: It is clear that Slovenia has regained its international recognition and has been more proactive in pursuit of its goals under your leadership. What would you like to achieve or accomplish by the end of the Slovenian Presidency?

On current affairs, we have been focusing on the dossiers on digitalisation, health, strengthening the resilience and preparedness for pandemics, and on the discussion about the high energy prices and the potential measures to protect consumers and economies. At the same time, we also work on regulating the relations of the European Union with our immediate neighbourhood – we harmonise the annual conclusions of the Council on EU enlargement. The European Union has also been handling relations with the United Kingdom since its withdrawal. We will still take part in leading the Conference on the Future of Europe. There remains a lot of work to be done. We will also prepare an assessment on the state of the Union and some proposals for changes. It is clear that the double standard policy employed by some EU institutions against states that do not have left-wing governments is the biggest threat to the existence of the EU.

DEMOKRACIJA: What are the Government's plans up until the end of its term? To what extent will you be able to accomplish objectives set by the coalition agreement considering that your majority in the parliament is quite fragile?

Our coalition's fragile majority has achieved ten times more than, for example, the Cerar government managed with a very comfortable majority. The coalition and the broader alliance in the National Assembly of the Republic of Slovenia has been performing soundly considering the circumstances. The deputy prime ministers, Matej Tonin and Zdravko Počivalšek, as well as the leaders of deputy groups are working hard for the good of Slovenia. The great majority of the broader team of ministers has shown great diligence, dedication to Slovenia and strength. They are literally burning out in their efforts. And for a meagre salary as well. Compare any sector in this and previous mandates and the figures will tell the story. Among other things, they will show that under left-wing governments, Slovenian pensioners have been treated as an unnecessary expense and Slovenian municipalities as appendages rather than engines of development and prosperity.

Most of the commitments from the coalition agreement have been implemented and we have done twice as much as what was expected of us in the current situation. In anti-corona legislative packages alone, we have made hundreds of difficult decisions for the good of the people that had to be promptly coordinated. By the end of the term, we will have visited all the remaining Slovenian regions and solved hundreds of open issues across the country. We do not only live in Ljubljana. This Government sees Slovenia as a whole and the centralisation of the country as an issue we are trying to remedy.

DEMOKRACIJA: The next regular elections are scheduled for Sunday, 24 April 2022. "They will decide on the return of democracy," said the last president of the Slovenian communist party in Šentjanž. In your opinion, what will these elections really decide? How can an average voter identify important differences between the programmes?

On this issue, I agree with Mr Kučan. These elections will decide whether democracy will finally return into the hands of the voters, and the legislative and executive power to those who form the next parliament and government based on the election result. And thus, indirectly, the end of a perverse state of affairs in which a small elite, headed by a former president of a totalitarian party, declare themselves to be the people, jumping and cycling around public squares despite the pandemic, and threatening to kill anyone who thinks differently. Supported by the privatised media, judiciary and the prosecutor's office.

These elections will decide whether the money goes to those who generate it or to NGOs at Metelkova No 6, KUL's militia, which has not made any contributions on a national level, while blowing tens of millions of the money of workers, business people and pensioners. After what we have seen, we can rightly fear that if the KUL coalition comes to power again, they will reintroduce food and petrol vouchers instead of tourist vouchers.

How can we identify important differences between programmes? It is quite simple. The offer will seem to be very diverse, but the substantial difference will be really easy to spot. During the campaign, some will present a programme for the people and for Slovenia, inviting all those who will win the voters' support and seats in the next incarnation of the National Assembly to cooperate. While others will also present their views for the future, but will call for the exclusion of all those who think differently. The second option will not lead to an improvement; it will lead to setbacks and deterioration. It will widen the divide and stubbornly defend privileges, centralism, and the rule of red tape and the elite.

DEMOKRACIJA: What will Slovenia look like in five years?

Liberated. We have a sound basis. Slovenia ranks in the top ten safest countries in the world. We are also up there on the sustainable development. We have beautiful and well preserved nature. Our social justice index ranks seventh in the world, beating Germany and New Zealand. We have one of the lowest shares of the population living in relative poverty. We outperformed Belgium, the Netherlands and Austria. We lead the EU in the social inclusion index and low child poverty. In this term, we have already climbed above the EU average in terms of digitalisation, we have the highest employment rate since 2008, and we are achieving excellent conditions for our bonds in the financial markets. We have one of the lowest levels of trust in the judicial institutions, not only in the EU but in the world, and rank only 32nd in the innovation index. But we can already improve this significantly in our next term.

DEMOKRACIJA: How?

With knowledge, reason and courage as well as cooperation, openness and the inclusion of all good hearts now gathered here. The SDS will continue to advocate for cooperation with those who think differently and forge diverse coalitions, as we have always done. The necessary condition for cooperation with our party is putting Slovenia and Slovenians first. Every Slovenia's achievement and the achievement of every Slovenian citizen is also our common achievement and every problem is a call for a common effort to find a solution. If we have been able to do that at this time, when, in addition to the inherited problems and with a weak majority in the National Assembly and in spite of heavy obstruction from the KUL coalition, we have been able to save people's lives and the economy from the epidemic, and to coordinate hundreds of outstanding issues while chairing the Council of the EU, then I really do not see any insurmountable obstacle to an excellent next term, when Slovenia can, after 30 years, take a deep breath again, free its people and economy from the shackles of red tape, ideology and centralism, and be free to create the prosperity that we have the potential to achieve and deserve.